Scotland v Italy Sat 14:15

[Mikey Brown]

Italy team announced, can't find it in any form other than a Reddit post. Good looking side. Pretty settled team. 6:2 bench with Zuiliani and Vintcent potentially very dangerous.

[sharvey44]

Scotland team to face Italy on Saturday, 1 February 2025, kick-off 2:15pm at Scottish Gas Murrayfield, live on BBC One Scotland (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (55)
14. Darcy Graham – Edinburgh Rugby (42)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (53)
12. Stafford McDowall – Glasgow Warriors (8)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (44)
10. Finn Russell – Bath Rugby (82) CO-CAPTAIN
9. Ben White – Toulon (24)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (37)
2. Dave Cherry – Edinburgh Rugby (11)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (70)
4. Jonny Gray – Bordeaux Bègles (77)
5. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (75)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (54)
7. Rory Darge – Glasgow Warriors (25) CO-CAPTAIN
8. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (50)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (22)
17. Rory Sutherland – Glasgow Warriors (37)
18. Will Hurd – Leicester Tigers (4)
19. Gregor Brown – Glasgow Warriors (4)
20. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (22)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (34)
22. Tom Jordan – Glasgow Warriors (3)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (9)

[Mikey Brown]

That's quite a return for Cherry. Am I right in saying he's the most solid lineout thrower of all the hooker options? I'll settle for that if it means we can actually get lineout ball out to our backs.

We've actually got a bit of impact to be brought off the bench there. That's one upside to Ritchie starting and Dempsey off the bench, particularly when he's been short of gametime.

[sharvey44]

That's quite a return for Cherry. Am I right in saying he's the most solid lineout thrower of all the hooker options? I'll settle for that if it means we can actually get lineout ball out to our backs.

We've actually got a bit of impact to be brought off the bench there. That's one upside to Ritchie starting and Dempsey off the bench, particularly when he's been short of gametime.

I think his set piece is more consistent than Ashman's. He is an out and out hooker, not a converted back row.

He's not as dynamic in the loose but defensively solid.

[BaldiePete]

As I said in the other thread I’m worried about Gray starting. Cherry starting is quite the comeback since his World Cup falling down the stairs incident. Definitely more consistent than Ashman but his peak is lower than Ashman’s, who could be very useful coming off the bench. I’m surprised Dempsey isn’t starting but Ritchie’s form has improved and he’s a genuine lineout option. Fagerson is going to need to do some serious carrying off the back of the scrum to replace Dempsey. The backs replacements look very handy it must be said.

[Cameo]

I'm happy enough with thst team considering the injuries, though a bit confused at hooker.

I think Gray starting despite lack of games is because we are looking at him as clear forst choice given Cummings is out so need to get him up to speed. Dempsey on the other hand is a good impact player, and may or may not get ahead of Ritchie next time out. He has also got one game in so perhaps less in need of gametime.

[septic 9]

Fagerson is going to need to do some serious carrying off the back of the scrum to replace Dempsey.

Richie needs to do some serious carrying to justify replacing Dempsey,
Too many slow ball Edinburgh forwards

[Cameo]

Fagerson is going to need to do some serious carrying off the back of the scrum to replace Dempsey.

Richie needs to do some serious carrying to justify replacing Dempsey,
Too many slow ball Edinburgh forwards

I think with Williamson and Cummings out, Dempsey is really the only Glasgow forward who can feel unlucky (though I like Ritchie more than most). You can make a case at LHP and hooker too I suppose.

[septic 9]

Fagerson is going to need to do some serious carrying off the back of the scrum to replace Dempsey.

Richie needs to do some serious carrying to justify replacing Dempsey,
Too many slow ball Edinburgh forwards

I think with Williamson and Cummings out, Dempsey is really the only Glasgow forward who can feel unlucky (though I like Ritchie more than most). You can make a case at LHP and hooker too I suppose.

It wasn't a suggestion that more Glasgow players were picked, I ag÷ options are very limited
The point was we lack enough gainline breaking ball carriers and that the esinpack consistently donot produce quick well presented ball. That is a huge concern for me. Richie needs to step up on our ball. Gratn÷is to get back char forward rather than ambling sideways

I would say that a glasv0 prop should start aheadof Edinburgh 's second best loosehead. Just not the one on the bench. With Hiddleston injured I would not be advocating a Glasgow hooker

[Mikey Brown]

I understand the case for both Ritchie and Cherry but agree that balance between lineout and ball carrying could have meant just picking one or the other, allowing Ashman or Dempsey to carry more.

Is Bhatti the form loosehead you’re referring to? I’ve found his Scotland appearances a bit frustrating so far. Seems capable of being immensely physical and solid in the scrum, but doesn’t quite seem to click. Not that Sutherland has looked a whole lot closer to his best.

[francoisfou]

Ange Capuozzo has been in a rich vein of form recently and will cause you some problems, if he gets ball in hand, and there could well be a rare away win for Italy.

[Mikey Brown]

Capuozzo vs Van der Merwe could be a pretty hilarious clash of styles/physiques in a couple of ways if there are any one-on-ones.

Capuozzo is very brave and VDM doesn’t throw his weight through contact as often as you’d like, but the difference in stature is really something he should be looking to exploit.

[francoisfou]

Sure is!
Are you suggesting that will o’ the wisp Capuozzo could slip by the lumbering VDM?!!

[Which Tyler]

Sure is!
Are you suggesting that will o’ the wisp Capuozzo could slip by the lumbering VDM?!!

Can we please see a ball-carrying nutmeg - PLEASE!

[Cameo]

So what are hopes/expectations?

Over the last ten years I have been pretty sceptical of pundits trying to claim that Italy are turning a corner and are now good, but their results last year have got me worried.

I still think, though, that I would be inwardly disappointed by anything other than a bonus point win (especially given the weather is decent). That's maybe too much to ask but, if we are somehow on three wins coming into the final round, I don't want us to be out of it because we haven't got enough bonus points. I also think that, while improving, Italy's clubs still aren't great and their players playing overseas aren't as good as ours. Will take a decent performance though and persistence (I don't really buy the complaints about lack of 80 minute performances, every team has lapses, but we need to keep the foot on the throat when we can).

[Mikey Brown]

The Squidge rundown of Scotland’s situation said a lot of it for me. There was some mention of the annual disallowed try/ref decision combined with a brutal self-inflicted error, that seems to make an appearance every year without fail, and the team just don’t seem to recover. There a good solid win or two, a narrowly blown/denied chance and then a game where we crumble a bit. That just seems to be the way.

The question posed was whether Townsend has got us punching above our weight already, or we actually reached his limit a few seasons back and have been squandering the last of our ‘golden’ generation? I couldn’t give you an answer. I assume many top coaches would have struggled with our strength/depth in the tight 5 for example.

The “this is our year” thing has now moved even beyond post-irony. I still completely believe we could beat all of these teams if we play to our potential, but without that killer instinct and accuracy at the highest intensity being there consistently it’s a huge ask.

We can be within reach of Ireland and France, and beat England a good chunk of the time over the last few years, yet we still feel way more susceptible to crashing and burning against an Italy, Japan, USA even.

As for Italy today, I do expect a convincing win, but that’s partially on the back of having fucked it up last time. That thinking is probably part of the same issue as above.

[septic 9]

I understand the case for both Ritchie and Cherry but agree that balance between lineout and ball carrying could have meant just picking one or the other, allowing Ashman or Dempsey to carry more.

Is Bhatti the form loosehead you’re referring to? I’ve found his Scotland appearances a bit frustrating so far. Seems capable of being immensely physical and solid in the scrum, but doesn’t quite seem to click. Not that Sutherland has looked a whole lot closer to his best.

Yes Bhatti
Folk rightly rave about Fagerson and Glasgow run to win URC final. He was on a different level but too many failed to notice who was picked for big games at LH and who was nearly as important in locking out scrum against the big boys. And his work rate is also very good. More to propping than getting a simple crowd to shout "shoooooo"

[BaldiePete]

Sure is!
Are you suggesting that will o’ the wisp Capuozzo could slip by the lumbering VDM?!!

Can we please see a ball-carrying nutmeg - PLEASE!

Just so long as it’s Darcy Graham doing it.

[BaldiePete]

The Squidge rundown of Scotland’s situation said a lot of it for me. There was some mention of the annual disallowed try/ref decision combined with a brutal self-inflicted error, that seems to make an appearance every year without fail, and the team just don’t seem to recover. There a good solid win or two, a narrowly blown/denied chance and then a game where we crumble a bit. That just seems to be the way.

The question posed was whether Townsend has got us punching above our weight already, or we actually reached his limit a few seasons back and have been squandering the last of our ‘golden’ generation? I couldn’t give you an answer. I assume many top coaches would have struggled with our strength/depth in the tight 5 for example.

The “this is our year” thing has now moved even beyond post-irony. I still completely believe we could beat all of these teams if we play to our potential, but without that killer instinct and accuracy at the highest intensity being there consistently it’s a huge ask.

We can be within reach of Ireland and France, and beat England a good chunk of the time over the last few years, yet we still feel way more susceptible to crashing and burning against an Italy, Japan, USA even.

As for Italy today, I do expect a convincing win, but that’s partially on the back of having fucked it up last time. That thinking is probably part of the same issue as above.

I pretty much agree with all that. It seems to be the Scottish way, we can look good when things are going well but don’t have the mental fortitude if something goes wrong to bounce back and we go to pieces. Last year’s matches against Wales and Italy being prime examples of the Scottish problem. 27-0 up early in the 2nd half against Wales but by the end we were clinging on for a 27-26 win. 22-10 up after 30 minutes against Italy then go to pieces after a disallowed try at the start of the 2nd half. I expect similar during this championship and we’ll finish in the bottom half.

[Mikey Brown]

Fucking hell. Get a load of this.

[Donny osmond]

Feel a little frustrated with that first half but I don't want to be overly critical, 3 tries and dominating the stats is not a bad effort... so far

[Mr Mwenda]

Good game this.

[Donny osmond]

60 minutes - absolutely raging

80 minutes - happy enough. I suppose.

[General Zod]

60 minutes - absolutely raging

80 minutes - happy enough. I suppose.

Yeah, fair.

Not relevant to this thread, but that Prendergast seems to be taking on Sexton’s “professionalism”. Over-egging marginally late but perfectly fine hits and shouting at the ref for a penalty.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, pretty duff middle half of the game. I think we have to be happy with a bonus point win, but there were a lot of holes in that performance.

Front row were great. Gray looked like a pensioner. Darge and Kinghorn fantastic. Russell absolutely fucking atrocious. Hopefully he’s able to shake that off. He’s looked sublime for Bath but he must have made 10+ errors today.

Great to see Jones and Graham get a bit of space to do their thing.