Training camp squad

[Puja]

Some fun selections: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... mxex0e8vvo

Blamire in ahead of Dan, Oghre, and Langdon
No Fazlet! SAtkinson keeps his place, but sadly so does Slade
No Dombrand, Ojomoh or Randall.
Hill retains his place despite not being good enough to start against the USA
Itoje rested ( ), IFW and Stuart nursing minor niggles and not counted, Martin still not fit

Overall, that's a pretty good squad; I don't hate it. I don't mind Ewels in there as a good training partner and pro who sets standards, and having him as our 5th choice lock isn't terrible. Would prefer to have Fasogbon in there learning too, but hoping there's some master plan to motivate him to improve some other part of his game, like Boombaby did by leaving Heyes out.

Puja


ETA. Saw this comment on the BBC story. Made i larf:

capture 1.jpg

[Puja]

Forwards

Ellis Genge (Bristol)
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Bevan Rodd (Sale)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Jamie Blamire (Leicester)

Joe Heyes (Leicester)
Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale)

Ollie Chessum (Leicester)
Alex Coles (Northampton)
Charlie Ewels (Bath)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)

Sam Underhill (Bath)
Ben Curry (Sale)
Henry Pollock (Northampton)
Guy Pepper (Bath)
Ted Hill (Bath)

Tom Willis (Saracens)
Ben Earl (Saracens)


Backs

Alex Mitchell (Northampton)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester)
Ben Spencer (Bath)

George Ford (Sale)
Fin Smith (Northampton)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)

Fraser Dingwall (Northampton)
Seb Atkinson (Gloucester)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath)
Henry Slade (Exeter)
Oscar Beard (Harlequins)

Tommy Freeman (Northampton)
Tom Roebuck (Sale)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Will Muir (Bath)

George Furbank (Northampton)
Freddie Steward (Leicester)

[fivepointer]

Tough on Carpenter and Northmore. Pleased Atkinson is named. Obviously a major rethink at hooker which i'm not displeased about. Felt Blamire has been a bit hard done by. Not sure what the issue is with Fasogbon. He looks a fantastic prospect and you would hope he is brought into the fold sooner rather than later.

[FKAS]

Yeah feels odd we've only got two tightheads in there, particularly with five centres and four wingers (especially when Beard covers both). I'd have liked to have seen Fasogbon in there as well.

Maro Itoje is still on honeymoon so is probably taking an extended bit of time off, which is just common sense at this point.

[Danno]

I suppose with Stuart carrying an injury and the season yet to start there aren't many other THs worth looking at just now. Fasogbon is still a baby in front row terms.

I'd imagine this is a bit of a pre season camp to see who's been eating too many sweeties and visiting too many barbecues in August and therefore needs to shape up a bit, and introducing them to yet another game of coaching musical chairs......

[Mikey Brown]

The Hill thing is strange. Not worth giving minutes over Dombrandt in the summer, but retained ahead of him now. I don’t dislike it, it’s just hard to know what Borthwick’s rationale is or what has changed since then. Tom Willis’s complete inability to offer anything past 55 minutes I guess.

[Beasties]

CCS officially at lock.

[Oakboy]

The Hill thing is strange. Not worth giving minutes over Dombrandt in the summer, but retained ahead of him now. I don’t dislike it, it’s just hard to know what Borthwick’s rationale is or what has changed since then. Tom Willis’s complete inability to offer anything past 55 minutes I guess.

Your comment on Willis is thought-provoking. Has he ever been challenged to do 80? Has SB ever referred to it? Or, is it a planned tactic? Is Dombrandt's absence going to herald a change of policy? Might it change if Earl is at 7? Or not, if Pollock is? Will CCS or Pollock get game time at 8 for club or country?

Willis would be in my first half dozen picks for the team sheet but if he is genuinely only good for 55, I'd dump him from the squad till he is fit.

[Puja]

CCS officially at lock.

Did you hear that somewhere else or what that from my listing of the players by position? Cause if it's from my post, that's me unofficially putting him there.

Frankly, I still stand by my opinion that that's where we should be developing him. He needs time there to learn, but he's got the potential to be excellent there and it'll free up space in our already congested back row.

Puja

[FKAS]

The Hill thing is strange. Not worth giving minutes over Dombrandt in the summer, but retained ahead of him now. I don’t dislike it, it’s just hard to know what Borthwick’s rationale is or what has changed since then. Tom Willis’s complete inability to offer anything past 55 minutes I guess.

Your comment on Willis is thought-provoking. Has he ever been challenged to do 80? Has SB ever referred to it? Or, is it a planned tactic? Is Dombrandt's absence going to herald a change of policy? Might it change if Earl is at 7? Or not, if Pollock is? Will CCS or Pollock get game time at 8 for club or country?

Willis would be in my first half dozen picks for the team sheet but if he is genuinely only good for 55, I'd dump him from the squad till he is fit.

Considering he's the main carrying threat for the pack along with Genge it's a fairly brutal role. Might just be managing his workload and wanting to use fresher players in that role to keep the carrying hard and allow your ball carriers to throw themselves in and not hold anything back for later in the game.

If you look at SA who are the best at using their bench then they often replace the 8, usually bringing on Kwaga Smith to offer a different and more mobile carrying option for the final 30 mins. Something we could recreate with Willis starting and Earl coming off the bench. Earl being able to cover the backrow keeps open the option of 5-3 as well though at international level it seems 6-2 is ever more popular.

[FKAS]

CCS officially at lock.

Did you hear that somewhere else or what that from my listing of the players by position? Cause if it's from my post, that's me unofficially putting him there.

Frankly, I still stand by my opinion that that's where we should be developing him. He needs time there to learn, but he's got the potential to be excellent there and it'll free up space in our already congested back row.

Puja

Yes, he should get more game time at lock. Not just because Quins second row options are fairly mid and Petti will probably play 6.

Being a utility option would be a major string to CCS's bow though. Much like Corry benching for England in 2003, being able to play lock, 6 and 8 to a passable international level really does open up the bench options and make his selection far more likely. Versatility is useful, having CCS (and Earl) on the bench really would offer England fantastic overage in a 5-3 bench split or in a 6-2 open up a spot for a niche replacement, someone like Underhill who's really only going to cover the one spot in the side.

[Beasties]

CCS officially at lock.

Did you hear that somewhere else or what that from my listing of the players by position? Cause if it's from my post, that's me unofficially putting him there.

Frankly, I still stand by my opinion that that's where we should be developing him. He needs time there to learn, but he's got the potential to be excellent there and it'll free up space in our already congested back row.

Puja

It’s you and your fake news.

[Beasties]

The Hill thing is strange. Not worth giving minutes over Dombrandt in the summer, but retained ahead of him now. I don’t dislike it, it’s just hard to know what Borthwick’s rationale is or what has changed since then. Tom Willis’s complete inability to offer anything past 55 minutes I guess.

Your comment on Willis is thought-provoking. Has he ever been challenged to do 80? Has SB ever referred to it? Or, is it a planned tactic? Is Dombrandt's absence going to herald a change of policy? Might it change if Earl is at 7? Or not, if Pollock is? Will CCS or Pollock get game time at 8 for club or country?

Willis would be in my first half dozen picks for the team sheet but if he is genuinely only good for 55, I'd dump him from the squad till he is fit.

Considering he's the main carrying threat for the pack along with Genge it's a fairly brutal role. Might just be managing his workload and wanting to use fresher players in that role to keep the carrying hard and allow your ball carriers to throw themselves in and not hold anything back for later in the game.

If you look at SA who are the best at using their bench then they often replace the 8, usually bringing on Kwaga Smith to offer a different and more mobile carrying option for the final 30 mins. Something we could recreate with Willis starting and Earl coming off the bench. Earl being able to cover the backrow keeps open the option of 5-3 as well though at international level it seems 6-2 is ever more popular.

I’ve found the get Willis off soon in the 2nd half thing weird. When he was at Wasps he would be relentlessly played for 80 mins every week. Some games he was all that was keeping Wasps together in that horrific run of injuries.