England Training Squad Announced

[Puja]

No Tom Willis.

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Puja

[Puja]

Immediate thoughts:
- Yaay, no keeping TWillis in for short-termism
- How in the hells does Raffi Quirke keep making squads. Terrific player several years ago, but he's solidly second choice at Sale and that's not all down to injuries.
- Good to see Ojomoh rewarded
- Radwan in is good, but no Carpenter seems weird. We're either going all-in on Steward at 15, or there's cunning plans involving one or more of Arundell/Freeman/MSmith
- Isiekwe? Fine, whatever.

Puja

[Danno]

No Tom Willis
Puja

Good.

I assume that's opened the door for Ilione - I'd have thought he would be in consideration for the A squad otherwise

I guess with JvP injured then Quirke is the next guy to fling balls about in training.

[Tom Moore]

Only one centre I don't want in the team, and 50% happy in there feels better than usual. Freeman at 15 hopefully, given that he actually plays there and how many other wings in fantastic form are in the squad.

[Puja]

No Tom Willis
Puja

Good.

I guess with JvP injured then Quirke is the next guy to fling balls about in training

I think I'd prefer to have McParland or Bracken in myself. I have absolutely no faith in Quirke's ability to stay fit and, at 24 and behind Gus Warr, I've not got a huge amount of faith in him kicking on in the future anymore.

Puja

[Danno]

No Tom Willis
Puja

Good.

I guess with JvP injured then Quirke is the next guy to fling balls about in training

I think I'd prefer to have McParland or Bracken in myself. I have absolutely no faith in Quirke's ability to stay fit and, at 24 and behind Gus Warr, I've not got a huge amount of faith in him kicking on in the future anymore.

Puja

Yeah fair, I wasn't really thinking about the U20s just yet but getting them exposure would only help

[Oakboy]

Any announcement re injured players? The Currys, JVP and Furbank might feature, for example.

[Oakboy]

Dombrandt and Filitau seem notable absences.

[Danno]

Dombrandt is injured, as is JvP. Not sure about Ben Curry. Tom is there as rehab.

There were some pics of the Wing Commander in light training last week, but I haven't seen any more than that. I assume he's still a little way off if he's not in the training squad.

Feelsl like we need to be looking at more than just Dan for future hookers - I recognise that Langdon is out at the moment, but Dan has been a bit underwhelming (as evidenced by the withdrawal of his CC)

[Captainhaircut]

Dan a poor pick. He was so bad in the second test against Argentina, lost his central contract and then didn’t make the last training squad. Not sure what has changed. I would have gone with Oghre I think.

Isiekwe is meh but not 100% sure who would have been picked ahead of him. Martin, Clark and Ewels all injured. Maybe Bamber but still feels early for him.

Is Carpenter injured? He didn’t play at the weekend.

Ojomoh, Arundell, Ilione all good to see.

With another 5 wingers in the squad (and not every versatile ones at that), it does feel like Freeman is down to play 13 (or maybe full back?).

[Scrumhead]

Dan is very lucky to be in the squad. Oghre would have been a more deserving selection. Presumably Jibulu will be with the A squad but if his rise continues, I expect him to press for the 3rd choice spot by the end of the season.

Quirke is even luckier. He’s there on reputation and nothing more. I’d have gone with Bracken or McParland,

Freeman at 15 feels like a very sensible choice that would allow us to have IFW and Roebuck in on the wings.

[FKAS]

Immediate thoughts:
- Yaay, no keeping TWillis in for short-termism
- How in the hells does Raffi Quirke keep making squads. Terrific player several years ago, but he's solidly second choice at Sale and that's not all down to injuries.
- Good to see Ojomoh rewarded
- Radwan in is good, but no Carpenter seems weird. We're either going all-in on Steward at 15, or there's cunning plans involving one or more of Arundell/Freeman/MSmith
- Isiekwe? Fine, whatever.

Puja

He's injured I think, wasn't available for Sale this weekend. Perhaps de Glanville might feel hard done by but having watched OHC calmly round him like a training cone on Saturday maybe not.

I imagine Marcus Smith will be play at 15 but Freddie will come in for the South Africa game as per usual. Freeman could be an option but his kicking game is a bit meh which is hard to get away with at 15 in international rugby, I think Arundell will find his time limited to the wing for a similar reason.

[p/d]

I’m just relieved the BBC has dedicated half their article to Farrell.

[Mikey Brown]

It’s all been covered really, but yeah what is Dan doing to earn a spot?

Isiekwe is a great athlete bla bla bla

Weird how quickly CCS goes from experimental 4th choice lock to backup ‘real’ 8, assuming Earl slots back in there.

Quirke ahead of Porter, McParland etc is silly.

5 wingers is weird. Will be very interesting to see where Freeman is used. I’d never really taken a return to fullback seriously because Furbank is such a key part of what Saints do, and it appeared that’s the kind of fullback England want also.

I can see Roebuck being able to do a lot of what Freeman offered on the wing and allow us to use him somewhere else though. We really just need to keep getting the ball in his hands.

[Puja]

Dombrandt and Filitau seem notable absences.

Hadn't noticed no Dombrandt - I was worried we'd go back to him after Willexit, so quite glad that's not the case.

Dan a poor pick. He was so bad in the second test against Argentina, lost his central contract and then didn’t make the last training squad. Not sure what has changed. I would have gone with Oghre I think.

Dan has started the season pretty well for Saracens - looked back to his best from what I've seen of him. He's an awfully good player to be able to bring off the bench, cause he runs incredibly hard and makes yards against set defences very well (especially given how relatively small he is), along with being fleet and skillful.

Could be a matter of some importance, given I'm assuming LCD will cop a ban for his red at tbe weekend. Surprised that Specs Balderdash didn't call up a 4th hooker to train given that - surely we could've thrown over one of our many wings?

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

On Quirke, I do think there is a real possibility we are thinking he could be looking at him as a 9/wing hybrid like a saffa 9. He did it in a game for sale last year late on and was good and has all the physical tools.

Also possible they just see him as having a much higher ceiling than everyone else and if JVP will be fit in a few weeks, they might just want a look at him.

[Puja]

In a bit of good news Caluori has been added to the training squad as an apprentice (so 37th player, not replacing anyone).

Puja

[fivepointer]

Its pretty much as expected.

Dan is a bit lucky but maybe he's had a kick up the arse and we'll see him start to move on. Quirke is a bit of a punt but one i'm quite happy about. He does have the ability to make an impact at this level, so here's his chance to show it. Isiekwe simply isnt up to it and Batley is a far better all round player. Pleased to see Radwan included, though 6 wings seems a bit excessive. Ilione is a good pick, as is Ojomoh.

SB entirely right to leave out Willis.

[Scrumhead]

Immediate thoughts:
- Yaay, no keeping TWillis in for short-termism
- How in the hells does Raffi Quirke keep making squads. Terrific player several years ago, but he's solidly second choice at Sale and that's not all down to injuries.
- Good to see Ojomoh rewarded
- Radwan in is good, but no Carpenter seems weird. We're either going all-in on Steward at 15, or there's cunning plans involving one or more of Arundell/Freeman/MSmith
- Isiekwe? Fine, whatever.

Puja

He's injured I think, wasn't available for Sale this weekend. Perhaps de Glanville might feel hard done by but having watched OHC calmly round him like a training cone on Saturday maybe not.

I imagine Marcus Smith will be play at 15 but Freddie will come in for the South Africa game as per usual. Freeman could be an option but his kicking game is a bit meh which is hard to get away with at 15 in international rugby, I think Arundell will find his time limited to the wing for a similar reason.

We’re not playing SA …

[Scrumhead]

I'm a touch surprised Malins didn't make the cut at 15 TBH. I was half expecting to see him there.

He's started the season well and if we want a second playmaker, he's probably the closest to Furbank in style.

As of right now, I'd be quite keen to see Freeman there. We're stacked on the wing and at least he has been playing there for Saints. @FKAS has a point about his kicking game, but I think the other aspects are good enough to warrant trying it.

[FKAS]

Immediate thoughts:
- Yaay, no keeping TWillis in for short-termism
- How in the hells does Raffi Quirke keep making squads. Terrific player several years ago, but he's solidly second choice at Sale and that's not all down to injuries.
- Good to see Ojomoh rewarded
- Radwan in is good, but no Carpenter seems weird. We're either going all-in on Steward at 15, or there's cunning plans involving one or more of Arundell/Freeman/MSmith
- Isiekwe? Fine, whatever.

Puja

He's injured I think, wasn't available for Sale this weekend. Perhaps de Glanville might feel hard done by but having watched OHC calmly round him like a training cone on Saturday maybe not.

I imagine Marcus Smith will be play at 15 but Freddie will come in for the South Africa game as per usual. Freeman could be an option but his kicking game is a bit meh which is hard to get away with at 15 in international rugby, I think Arundell will find his time limited to the wing for a similar reason.

We’re not playing SA …

Are we not? Oh, in which case might be a dull AI period for Freddie then.

[FKAS]

I'm a touch surprised Malins didn't make the cut at 15 TBH. I was half expecting to see him there.

Borthwick wants to be able to counter attack from the back. Malins has Steward levels of pace but with no size or aerial dominance to make up for it.

[Which Tyler]

Perhaps de Glanville might feel hard done by but having watched OHC calmly round him like a training cone on Saturday maybe not.

TBF, TdG's positioning on the wing was terrible all match. I'd expect any competent winger to be able to exploit that, given a 1 on 1 (let alone the 2 on 1 he often had).

I think TdG could make the step up if given a chance, and a run at it - and is probably England's best like-for-like to fit into a Furbank gameplan; but he's not good enough to be feeling annoyed at being overlooked.

Carpenter is the FB I'd have liked to see there, but I suspect it's going to be Freeman or Arundell

[Puja]

Our wing resources are frankly ridiculous. We have to pick IFW, given his international form so far and the way he's started the season. But it's also getting close to "We have to pick Arundell" because he's an absolute freak of a player and looks to be back confident and firing for Bath. And we also have to pick Freeman, cause he's been consistently one of our best players for the last two years and it'd be incredible not to pick Roebuck who is a weapon in the air and so evasive ball in hand, and that's not taking into account the lightning speed, finishing ability, and strength of Radwan, or the many claims of Murley, OHC, Sleightholme, Muir, Brown-Bampoe, and gods only know who else.

Gods help us if Caluori continues to take off like a rocket and becomes another player that we **have** to pick.

With Lawrence in such good form and Northampton struggling for fit back-three, there's no room to give Freeman his wish and move him to 13, so I think we do have to take the opportunity provided by a hole at full-back to fit one of our plethora in there.

Puja

[TheDasher]

I'm a touch surprised Malins didn't make the cut at 15 TBH. I was half expecting to see him there.

Borthwick wants to be able to counter attack from the back. Malins has Steward levels of pace but with no size or aerial dominance to make up for it.

I wouldn't start Malins at 15 so not advocating that but Malins is about 100x quicker than Steward over the first 25 metres, he accelerates very quickly indeed. If forced to pick between the two at 15 I'd go for Steward btw.