Scotland v Italy Sat 14:15

[Cameo]

Can't decide how I feel about that. 5-1 in tries should have meant a very comfortable win and it felt like it in some ways, but with 20 mins to go we were somehow level. I feel like a very similar performance would have easily ended up with a 39-12 scoreline or more.

Some random thoughts:

- Scrum looked on the backfoot throughout. Hopefully just a matchup thing.

- Lineout was good. Cherry decent in the loose too.

- We, as usual, lack carrying power in our front five. A lot of criticism for Gray. I actually thought his offloading game was quite good. Not an easy fix either way, especially with the injuries we have. Feels like we could do with more interplay and different angles near the gainline. We lose momentum with the one out carries.

- Horne and Jordan added something when they came on but I would keep them on the bench. White's kicking was just much better than Horne's (even excluding the chargedown). Jordan I feel is the perfect sub at the moment. I agree McDowall didn't do a lot in attack today but I wonder if that was partly gameplan. We didn't do many of the centre triangle that we do with Sione and Jones, but that might be because Italy's centres as probably their strongest point. Also, McDowall ran a great line just before Darge's try. If he'd been given the ball, that would have put a nice shine on his performance.

- Back three were great. I have seen DVDM get some stick, but I thought he was really good first half. A few times he got the ball down the touchline with a smaller man in front of him and just ran through him. Most noticeably for the first Jones try but there were others. Graham has a quieter start but great second half. Kinghorn was the real star though. Looked so composed and commanded the high ball. Will be vital next week.

- Russell was mixed but wasn't terrible. Saw gaps and put people into them. Just pushed things a bit much on a few occassions.

Defence was good but hard to judge til we see how Italy go in their other games.

Also, decisions of when to go for goal amd when to go to the corner are so tricky. I've seen understandable praise for Italy keeping themselves in it by kicking their penalties. Hard to argue with, but was it not a contributing factor to us barely being any pressure until the intercept.

[Mikey Brown]

Can't decide how I feel about that. 5-1 in tries should have meant a very comfortable win and it felt like it in some ways, but with 20 mins to go we were somehow level. I feel like a very similar performance would have easily ended up with a 39-12 scoreline or more.

Some random thoughts:

- Scrum looked on the backfoot throughout. Hopefully just a matchup thing.

- Lineout was good. Cherry decent in the loose too.

- We, as usual, lack carrying power in our front five. A lot of criticism for Gray. I actually thought his offloading game was quite good. Not an easy fix either way, especially with the injuries we have. Feels like we could do with more interplay and different angles near the gainline. We lose momentum with the one out carries.

- Horne and Jordan added something when they came on but I would keep them on the bench. White's kicking was just much better than Horne's (even excluding the chargedown). Jordan I feel is the perfect sub at the moment. I agree McDowall didn't do a lot in attack today but I wonder if that was partly gameplan. We didn't do many of the centre triangle that we do with Sione and Jones, but that might be because Italy's centres as probably their strongest point. Also, McDowall ran a great line just before Darge's try. If he'd been given the ball, that would have put a nice shine on his performance.

- Back three were great. I have seen DVDM get some stick, but I thought he was really good first half. A few times he got the ball down the touchline with a smaller man in front of him and just ran through him. Most noticeably for the first Jones try but there were others. Graham has a quieter start but great second half. Kinghorn was the real star though. Looked so composed and commanded the high ball. Will be vital next week.

- Russell was mixed but wasn't terrible. Saw gaps and put people into them. Just pushed things a bit much on a few occassions.

Defence was good but hard to judge til we see how Italy go in their other games.

Also, decisions of when to go for goal amd when to go to the corner are so tricky. I've seen understandable praise for Italy keeping themselves in it by kicking their penalties. Hard to argue with, but was it not a contributing factor to us barely being any pressure until the intercept.

Agree on the overall summary, defence, Horne, Jordan, McDowall particularly. Well put.

I guess we judge Russell to a different standard, he did do some good things, but not even close to having a decent contribution:error rate. Bad day from him, but he always has a bit of that in him and better to get it out the way early I guess. Not necessarily a big deal but that would have cost us big time against many other teams.

Gray did do some nice stuff too, but he looks so cumbersome, falling in to contact situations etc. and hopefully it’s just rust. There was definitely an element of wanting to bring back those Hines style offloads around the ruck, but a bit more dynamism and go-forward is required (or a more threatening 9 running off them) to make it really impactful.

I’m keen to see where we go with that approach with the forward runners. At times we were trying to play like Toulouse/France a bit with the direct carries and offloads. It’s definitely an interesting tactic and I admire the commitment we showed to it, but we are not a French team and need to balance this strategy against our running resources a little.

Dempsey and Ashman could definitely be useful in this area, though I was very pleased with what we saw from sexy Dave up front. In the name of balance I’d like another big carrier, but I like Dempsey from the bench as a late option too.

Who the fuck made that call to turn down the easy 3 points in front of the posts when it was 19-19 at about an hour?

[BaldiePete]

It’s very Scottish to be moaning after a five try BP win and restricting Italy to only one try which came from our mistake rather than from their attack but there are still the same weaknesses, most obviously letting the opposition back into the match when we are well ahead. We seem to make bad starts to the 2nd half too often, maybe Townsend’s half time talks are sending them to sleep.

Cherry was much better than I expected, he’s certainly done enough to merit keeping the jersey next week. Fagerson (Z) was immense and Schoeman had a decent game. On the radio at half-time Tom English was talking about the first half being one of the best Scottish front five performances in years, which is undoubtedly an exaggeration, but they did well. I’d expect they’ll all keep their places. Dempsey made a good impact when he came on, he should be considered for a start. McDowall was fairly anonymous but Jordan showed the advantage of playing a distributor at 12, he made a great flat pass in the lead up to the 3rd Jones try and I’d like to see him start there against Ireland. He’s the ideal player to counter the threat from Aki at 12.

[Mikey Brown]

I’d like to see him start there against Ireland. He’s the ideal player to counter the threat from Aki at 12.

In what sense?

[Cameo]

[/quote]

Who the fuck made that call to turn down the easy 3 points in front of the posts when it was 19-19 at about an hour?
[/quote]

Haha - rugby is such a game of opinions. I thought that was the right call. Plenty of time so lets stick to the plan and keep the pressure on rather than trying to squeek a win. Didn't pay off that time, but over the course of the match the decisions to turn down the 3 definitely did.

I think we just slightly disagree on Russell. A few glaring errors (and he was pretty hard on himself post match). But he also contributed was fast crisp passing to some sharp backs moves even apart from the lovely balls to put people through gaps. Not saying it was a great performance from him (amd I think he often gets a bit loose when we get off to a flyer), but just don't think it was that bad either.

[BaldiePete]

I’d like to see him start there against Ireland. He’s the ideal player to counter the threat from Aki at 12.

In what sense?

He’s strong, aggressive and fearless.

[Cameo]

I’d like to see him start there against Ireland. He’s the ideal player to counter the threat from Aki at 12.

In what sense?

He’s strong, aggressive and fearless.

McDowall is bigger though and is a very good defender (and has those sharp hands too). Tight call, but I would be inclined to leave things as they are. McDowall also has experience against the Irish patterns.

[BaldiePete]

In what sense?

He’s strong, aggressive and fearless.

McDowall is bigger though and is a very good defender (and has those sharp hands too). Tight call, but I would be inclined to leave things as they are. McDowall also has experience against the Irish patterns.

He might be bigger but from what I’ve seen of Glasgow, Jordan is more aggressive and has a standoff’s distribution skills. I think playing him might take some pressure off Finn. I’d like to see him get a chance.

[Donny osmond]

He’s strong, aggressive and fearless.

McDowall is bigger though and is a very good defender (and has those sharp hands too). Tight call, but I would be inclined to leave things as they are. McDowall also has experience against the Irish patterns.

He might be bigger but from what I’ve seen of Glasgow, Jordan is more aggressive and has a standoff’s distribution skills. I think playing him might take some pressure off Finn. I’d like to see him get a chance.

Seconded. Really impressed with what I've seen of TJ in last few internationals and I thought our back line looked much more organised after he came on at the weekend.

[switchskier]

, maybe Townsend’s half time talks are sending them to sleep.

New thread topic: who's the ideal hype person to give the halftime team talk? Doesn't have to be from within the current coaching set up, SRU or even rugby.

[Scottish Caley Fan]

Gregor Townsend didn't do the half time team talk, the BBC showed a clip of the dressing room and I'm sure it was Steve Tandy ?

[switchskier]

Gregor Townsend didn't do the half time team talk, the BBC showed a clip of the dressing room and I'm sure it was Steve Tandy ?

Maybe he always does it but I'm not sure that I like the signal that it sends having your defence coach give the half time talk when you're ahead. Wrong mindset?

[Which Tyler]

Surely all the coaches have their say at HT, just because the 30 second clip we saw was Tandy, doesn't mean the whole 10 minutes were him

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, that's a lot of assumptions from the brief clip of Tandy we saw.

[Mikey Brown]

Haha - rugby is such a game of opinions. I thought that was the right call. Plenty of time so lets stick to the plan and keep the pressure on rather than trying to squeek a win. Didn't pay off that time, but over the course of the match the decisions to turn down the 3 definitely did.

I think we just slightly disagree on Russell. A few glaring errors (and he was pretty hard on himself post match). But he also contributed was fast crisp passing to some sharp backs moves even apart from the lovely balls to put people through gaps. Not saying it was a great performance from him (amd I think he often gets a bit loose when we get off to a flyer), but just don't think it was that bad either.

I wouldn't view it as being about squeaking a win at all. There was loads of time left. It's simply about responding to their 19 unanswered points, taking the lead, taking command of the game and having the confidence to know you'll get back up the field and score again.

Maybe this goes back to the Scottish (supports) mentality thing again, but there's a fine line between those decisions feeling like a real foot-on-the-throat decision and it just feeling desperate, as if this may be our only chance to score again. The psychological dent when you blow the chance and go back to your half with 0 points isn't always worth it.

Ireland seem to really have a feel for this, but of course it helps that they are so accurate.

On the 12 shirt - I would happily see Jordan get more time there, but why not give McDowall a bit of time to settle in to the role rather than chopping and changing. I don't think he's ever played consecutive games for Scotland.

[Big D]

Gregor Townsend didn't do the half time team talk, the BBC showed a clip of the dressing room and I'm sure it was Steve Tandy ?

Maybe he always does it but I'm not sure that I like the signal that it sends having your defence coach give the half time talk when you're ahead. Wrong mindset?

Having your defence coach speak for a couple of minutes to reinforce the game plan and implement tweaks based on what he's seen is one of the more sensible and professional things to do surely?

[Big D]

On McDowell, he wasn't good but it was his 1st game in weeks and should have had a walk in try but Finn pulled it back for Darge.

He should start next week.

[Mikey Brown]

Pretty underwhelming stats for him, but yeah solid and should have had a try.

What a finish from Darge though.

[Cameo]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder whether there was a game plan thing meaning we used the centres differently than usual. We didn't see McDowall take the ball with Jones coming short off him like we normally see all the time with Sione.

I don't know if that was a personnel thing or about where we thought we could get at Italy.

Like you Mikey, I'd give them another go as they were but wouldn't be gutted to see Jordan start.

[Croft_No.5]

I think one of the main issues on Saturday was the fact that when he plays, Sione takes a lot of the pressure off Finn. It seemed that Finn was trying to do too much a lot of the time and I didn't see much of someone else playing first receiver

[septic 9]

Jus to give some food for though, at Glasgow McDowell often steps in at 2nd receiver when deputising for Tuipolotu. And often at first receiver. Jordan is rarely first receiver even with 10 on his back, and if you want to list his starts at 12 you will only need the back of a very small postage stamp