Saints get away with it

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Something else which needs to be eradicated from the game is the ball carrier lifting his elbow into the tackle. It happens far too much and it's not surprising that Murray was yet another to come a cropper as a result.

[Mellsblue]

Plenty of interesting stuff here:

Rugby concussions: RFU head of medicine defends HIA process
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38669294

[Mellsblue]

Sale also get away with it. The review found that the decision not to remove Ioane from the field of play was "a matter of clinical judgement by the team doctor'.

[Digby]

I've been chatting in the last couple of days to some folks at various clubs around the west midlands and sod the pro rugby the likely scale of concussions at the junior level are alarming. Over and over there are kids who're taking knocks to the head, with a fair chance of some concussion it would seem, who're simply turning up each weekend no matter they've had maybe a dozen possible concussions in say 24 months, and that before the age of 16.

There's also no certainty there are any medical records, that are either being compiled by clubs, or that are being sent in to the kids' doctors. And then there might be other incidents at school, or other activities which see the kid suffer a concussion that the rugby clubs know nothing about.

[Puja]

Was it just me, or was Parisse completely and unequivocally sparked out today and then allowed to play on?

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Unless I missed one, then just you (well, not me anyway), he maintained muscle tone in his arms / neck / shoulders throughout IMO

[Mellsblue]

The success, or otherwise, of this will be of interest:

BIBA to introduce head scans following Mike Towell and Nick Blackwell incidents
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/38878500

[Which Tyler]

Please note though, the scanners are for intracranial bleeding (a bad thing) not concussion (a different bad thing).
No idea on efficacy, or if it's 3 min for the whole cranium, or 3 min for 1 spot.

[Digby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38958828

Dunbar with a 4 minute HIA and then develops symptoms post match. Hard to know what to say

[Eugene Wrayburn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38958828

Dunbar with a 4 minute HIA and then develops symptoms post match. Hard to know what to say

Not really. HIAs are clearly almost worthless.

[Puja]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38958828

Dunbar with a 4 minute HIA and then develops symptoms post match. Hard to know what to say

Not really. HIAs are clearly almost worthless.

They certainly are when done with a half-arsed approach and the expectation that the player will be going back on unless he can't remember his name. Someone needs to be punished for it or teams will just keep doing it.

Puja

[Digby]

Sounds like the BBC report might be based on the match clock, and the match clock wasn't ticking for all of Dunbar's time under HIA, though I'd agree the HIA process is a bit absurd.

Interesting some of the research starting to come out in football now connected to heading the ball.

[Mellsblue]

Interesting some of the research starting to come out in football now connected to heading the ball.

This seems to be getting a lot more coverage at the moment. Not sure whether this is a good or bad thing for rugby going forward.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Interesting some of the research starting to come out in football now connected to heading the ball.

This seems to be getting a lot more coverage at the moment. Not sure whether this is a good or bad thing for rugby going forward.

I've become convinced that until someone gets sued and loses a lot of money rugby will do nothing of any real consequence. With fucking idiots in the media saying that somehow the game is less manly if you try to reduce the risks of serious brain injury the governing body just gets frightened off.

[Which Tyler]

Well, with the Saints case, many of us said that finding them guilty, but not punshing them just sets precedent and would open the flood gates - looks like we may have been right.

I have to agree with you Eug. that nothing seems likely to change without a big court case. Rugby has had the chance to change itself - and it talked the talk, and fell at the first hurdle of actually doing something. I actually now hope that the Sale SH case succeeds.
FTR, this is not anti-Saints, or anti-Sale, or anti-Wales or anything else; the individual club involved are a case of "there but for the grace of gods, go my team"

[Oakboy]

Interesting some of the research starting to come out in football now connected to heading the ball.

This seems to be getting a lot more coverage at the moment. Not sure whether this is a good or bad thing for rugby going forward.

I've become convinced that until someone gets sued and loses a lot of money rugby will do nothing of any real consequence. With fucking idiots in the media saying that somehow the game is less manly if you try to reduce the risks of serious brain injury the governing body just gets frightened off.

Just from a legal point of view, is the nature of the game an issue or is it 'just' negligence in applying a protocol?

[Banquo]

What's the situation with respect to serious brain injury in Rugby anyway- how many historically, and is it a growing trend? Are we seeing the same thing (albeit smaller) as in grid iron?

[Mellsblue]

Some chap in Scotland has undertaken an invasive study on the brains of deceased ex-rugby players. His findings ain't pretty.

[kk67]

This seems to be getting a lot more coverage at the moment. Not sure whether this is a good or bad thing for rugby going forward.

I've become convinced that until someone gets sued and loses a lot of money rugby will do nothing of any real consequence. With fucking idiots in the media saying that somehow the game is less manly if you try to reduce the risks of serious brain injury the governing body just gets frightened off.

Just from a legal point of view, is the nature of the game an issue or is it 'just' negligence in applying a protocol?

Negligence. It's old farts living their lives vicariously through their players. More specifically it's touchline staff trying to relive their glory days.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

What's the situation with respect to serious brain injury in Rugby anyway- how many historically, and is it a growing trend? Are we seeing the same thing (albeit smaller) as in grid iron?

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

[Banquo]

What's the situation with respect to serious brain injury in Rugby anyway- how many historically, and is it a growing trend? Are we seeing the same thing (albeit smaller) as in grid iron?

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

Hi there; I do think its different issue in grid-iron, but purely based on the anecdotal stuff about the helmets both promoting madder headlong charges and a greater concussive effect. Need to get those studies done to figure what if any radical intervention is needed, in parallel to promoting safer behaviour and good tackling technique.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

What's the situation with respect to serious brain injury in Rugby anyway- how many historically, and is it a growing trend? Are we seeing the same thing (albeit smaller) as in grid iron?

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

Hi there; I do think its different issue in grid-iron, but purely based on the anecdotal stuff about the helmets both promoting madder headlong charges and a greater concussive effect. Need to get those studies done to figure what if any radical intervention is needed, in parallel to promoting safer behaviour and good tackling technique.

I'd agree with almost all that. Gridiron had a particular problem with people deliberately their helmeted heads as a weapon, but I don't think that it's a wholly different issue but rather a question of degree.

[16th man]

What's the situation with respect to serious brain injury in Rugby anyway- how many historically, and is it a growing trend? Are we seeing the same thing (albeit smaller) as in grid iron?

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

Hi there; I do think its different issue in grid-iron, but purely based on the anecdotal stuff about the helmets both promoting madder headlong charges and a greater concussive effect. Need to get those studies done to figure what if any radical intervention is needed, in parallel to promoting safer behaviour and good tackling technique.

I'm pretty sure I've seen that it isn't the odd helmet torpedo style assault that is the biggest issue, it's the repetitive smaller impacts that Linemen suffer at every snap that causes the most serious damage.

[Banquo]

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

Hi there; I do think its different issue in grid-iron, but purely based on the anecdotal stuff about the helmets both promoting madder headlong charges and a greater concussive effect. Need to get those studies done to figure what if any radical intervention is needed, in parallel to promoting safer behaviour and good tackling technique.

I'm pretty sure I've seen that it isn't the odd helmet torpedo style assault that is the biggest issue, it's the repetitive smaller impacts that Linemen suffer at every snap that causes the most serious damage.

ah ok, what about the 'helmet' effect, as it were?

[Banquo]

(hello again stranger)

I'm not sure that a definitive study has been done yet but I would be very surprised if we didn't have the same problem.

Hi there; I do think its different issue in grid-iron, but purely based on the anecdotal stuff about the helmets both promoting madder headlong charges and a greater concussive effect. Need to get those studies done to figure what if any radical intervention is needed, in parallel to promoting safer behaviour and good tackling technique.

I'd agree with almost all that. Gridiron had a particular problem with people deliberately their helmeted heads as a weapon, but I don't think that it's a wholly different issue but rather a question of degree.

Yep get that, persistent and prolonged 'head banging' I suppose.